The same issue again.
See this. Excerpts and fisking:
It is the season of giving, and in that spirit I would like to give a Christmas present to the Christians within our ranks as a gesture of good will.
That good will is never reciprocated. NEVER. Always, the Christians are the aggressors, trying to force their religion into activism as an integral part – the priority, the most important part – of White racial nationalism.
Due to the Brandon economy, I do not have any partridges or pear trees, but I do have two arguments that can be used in defense of our politics by Christian Nationalists…
When are Christians going to return the favor and explain how atheism can better inform racial nationalism?
…I do not see Christian Nationalism disappearing anytime soon, especially given recent developments with Ye.
An excellent reason to hope Christian nationalism does disappear soon. WN 3.0 is bad enough, do we need even more Coloreds associated with Der Movement?
Also, many of the people who we are trying to reach are Christian. Thus, we need to find a way for Christianity to coexist with dissident politics.
Shouldn’t that be the responsibility of pro-White Christians? As I have written repeatedly, if Christianity is really compatible with White nationalism, then it are the Christians who need to demonstrate this. They need to do the work. Why should non-Christians, including anti-Christians, expend time and effort to square a circle that they do not believe can, or even desire to, be squared?
My advice is inspired in part by the Nick Fuentes versus Alex Jones debate. At the end of the debate, at around 1:16:30, one of the callers asks Fuentes why he doesn’t start “living in Christ,” “become like the Amish,” and do his own thing instead of “throwing bombs.” Fuentes responded well, and I will give him credit where it is due despite having criticized him in the past. But the caller’s question, while asked in good faith, is indicative of a mindset that is so widespread and pernicious that it must be decisively refuted.
it must be “decisively refuted” by Christians. Why must non-Christians, such as the author of this piece, or myself, do the work of people we disagree with? If Christians cannot defend their faith, then they prove themselves and their faith useless. I’m not here to help them with that, and neither is this author, and neither are all of you non-Christians out there.
There is an effeminate, ahistorical version of Christianity which seems to have emerged in the 1800s and then became even more widespread in the 1900s…
Have you noticed that Christianity moves to the Left as literacy increases among Christians? Once folks start reading the New Testament for themselves it becomes easier for leftists to leverage scripture for their purposes, and more difficult for patriotic forces to pretend that Christianity really supports a muscular domestic and foreign policy.
…which mostly boils down to passively praying as history passes by, being overly sugary sweet no matter what, withdrawing from the world, and indulging liberal subversion such as by forgiving the murderer of one’s child at the hands of feral immigrants. It is the fellaheen mindset which Oswald Spengler described as appearing when a culture becomes old and tired.
Actually it is what is in The New Testament.
While this specific caller and many others advance these attitudes in good faith, there is also a contingent of people who use the all-too-familiar tactic of demanding that Christians abide by a cherry-picked version of their rules and values while they themselves have none. Thus have some of the most well-intentioned people been taken advantage of by the worst of the worst for decades.
Why do you assume that Christians are among “the most well-intentioned” and their critics are “the worst?” I think it is the other way around.
I have found that I must temper my natural impulse to dive straight into matters of blood and iron, or to point in exasperation at how white Christians in Waco and Randy Weaver’s wife were murdered by the feds simply for wanting to peacefully live by themselves, and consider the matter to be decisively concluded.
Yes, decisively concluded – Christianity is a useless religion of defeat, humiliation, and surrender.
I confess that I, too, often end up talking past people instead of addressing their viewpoints. I hope to arm Christian Nationalists with some arguments that are tailored to their worldview, and which will therefore be more effective when they debate other Christians who are adjacent to our politics.
Why, why, WHY? Why can’t the Christian nationalists arm themselves with effective arguments? Why must they ALWAYS depend on non-Christians riding to the rescue, followed by Christians finally becoming aggressive in the only way they know how – attacking White Far Right non-Christians and asserting that the failed Christian faith, that hapless and hopeless system, is what we all should adopt?
OK, we all become Christians. Who will ride to our defense then, when we are all useless weaklings who depend on our (now non-existent) Far Right opponents to make effective arguments for us?
Let us examine Descartes’ cogito ergo sum — “I think therefore I am” — first. Well, duh. But this point is actually an important first step. If we are thinking, we must exist. But what if we are deluded?
Deluded like Christians are.
What if we are in an insane asylum, in a dream, trapped in The Matrix, or most importantly for this argument, deceived by a demon? We know that we exist in some form or another, but can we be sure about the exterior world? If the exterior world is a delusion, studying it would be pointless and perhaps even gravely misleading.
But there is hope. We have within us the idea of perfection — even though we have never once seen anything perfect in the exterior world. Descartes argues that it logically follows that a perfect being must therefore exist. Descartes takes this as proof of the theistic God: an all-knowing, all-good, all-powerful being.
That makes no sense whatsoever. All it demonstrates is the power of the human imagination and our striving for our human perception of perfection.
God, due to His theistic nature, would not delude us, or suffer us to be deluded.
Err…all this is predicated on assuming the sale – that God exists.
God would therefore not prevent a demon, or anything, to permanently delude us. Thus, the exterior world is real and true.
Huh? Did he mean “permit” instead of “prevent?” That fine Counter-Currents editing again?
This means we can take the objective, exterior, empirical world precisely as we find it. We do not have to second-guess it.
No God required.
What this means for Christian Nationalists is that they can apply the cogito proof to the social sciences just as Descartes applied it to the natural sciences. They can study race realism, high politics, and history without being heretical. Race and IQ can be studied as they are empirically found, just like dinosaur bones. Some of these things may have to be reconciled with Scripture, such as race realism with Imago Dei, which is the doctrine that Man is made in the image of God. I will leave the details of that to the Christians. But they can be reconciled — or at the very least, both can be true. We do not have to recoil from the hard facts of black criminality and Jewish subversion as heresies.
Occam’s razor is thus replaced by Occam’s butter knife. No God is required. The preceding quoted paragaph is all nonsense.
The second argument is that there is a stark differentiation between the public and private spheres.
Christ’s commandment of “love your enemy” is probably the most manipulated passage in the entire Bible. The Bible was written in Koine Greek, which, like all languages, reflects the culture of its speakers. Koine Greek reflects how the ancient Greeks saw a stark divide between private (meaning personal) affairs and public affairs, such as the state’s.
As noted by Carl Schmitt in The Concept of the Political, the word for “enemy” used in “love your enemy” is inimicos and not hostes. Inimicos is a private, or personal, enemy such as the neighbor who doesn’t pick up after his dog, while hostes is a public enemy, such as an enemy’s army.
This distinction is vital. What this means is that in our personal lives we should be loving and forgiving, but not necessarily towards our nation’s enemies. Christ and those who recorded His words must have known that there were two very distinct words for a public enemy and a private enemy which don’t sound anything alike. If we were supposed to love our public enemies, Christ would have clarified that.
Furthermore, the distinction between private and public pervades the entire Bible. Christ never led an army or governed a state, and his life was focused almost entirely on the personal, or private. His teachings and leadership by example reflect this. Christ was a loving lamb of God.
In reality, private and public bleed into each other. What about when a White forgives a Black for doing something horrible to that White and their family? Private? Public? Mass migration is viewed by WNs as an “invading army” but not by the Christian public. They see no army. They see private individuals in need. When the Pope washes and kisses the feet of arrogant Negro migrants, is that act private or public? Why did the Quakers’ Christianity mean pacifism?
Too many Republicans In Name Only (RINOs) act like Christ in matters of state because they either have good faith, but ultimately a poor understanding of the Bible; or because they are manipulating their Christian constituents in bad faith.
No, they are following their religion.
Regardless, a Christian Nationalist should act as ruthlessly as Moses in the political arena, and save his Christian charity for making peace with annoying neighbors.
Annoying neighbors? Racial integration? Mass immigration? Coloreds become your annoying neighbors.
Let us apply this to the scenarios in which white youths are murdered by immigrants or blacks, and their idiot parents then ask for clemency for the killer. Is this a private or a public matter? In some ways, it is private, as it involves a wrong which is intensely personal.
Yes. So? In many cases the private and the public overlap.
But it is ultimately more public than private. Murder is a matter of public concern, because if murderers are not dealt with harshly, they will likely murder other innocents. Additionally, the racial component makes it a public matter because it fits into a broader racial struggle between the white nations and their non-white adversaries. A Christian Nationalist might “forgive” a killer on a spiritual level and pray for the salvation of his soul like Christ, but he would also urge a swift execution by the state and stricter immigration policies — in the spirit of Moses.
You can make all the arguments you like, but Christians interpret that, in real life, as private forgiveness. Who is not seeing the world with empirical reality now? Let us consider a Goad comment:
Ask him to reconcile Galatians 3:28 with any ideological form of ethnic nationalism:
“There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.”
The Christian apologists insist that this bible quote does not mean that races, ethnic groups, and male/female sex do do not (yes, I know, a double negative sentence, but you get the point, I hope) exist, but instead means that all are united as believers under Christ. That is a bait and switch argument, because people who raise this point are not arguing that Christians do not believe in differences, but instead that Christians believe that these differences are secondary to, and basically irrelevant compared to, being a believer – and that is precisely the argument that the apologists are making, once you strip away all the fluff and get down to basics. And that is the whole issue – Christians prioritize religion over race and that is why in the real empirical world of today, Christians are for the most part self-destructive cucks and why the distinction between private and public meaningless with respect to the Christian question. All is private; all is public. It is all one “under our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.”
Thus, you end up with someone like this Amren commentator:
I love the idea of a civilization state. That means people who share the same principles as I do: the Bible, Declaration of Independence, and Constitution. If they have the same color skin as I do and reject those principles, they are not my people. If they have a different color skin but accept those principles, they are my people.
Back to the Counter-Currents article:
Whether you should act more like Christ or Moses depends on if the situation is private or public.
A distinction often without a difference.
In summary, the lukewarm mindset which has held Christians back from realizing their full potential as a political force can be countered by, first, understanding that it is all right to deal with reality as we find it, because a theistic God would not deceive us; and second, differentiating between the public and the private, and therefore understanding that there is a time and place to be sweet and a time and place to be harsh.
May you have a Huwhite Christmas and some successful debates over hot chocolate.
Nonsense.
Goad:
Let us know when “recent developments with Ye” translate into anything resemblng [sic] electoral success rather than a PR disaster.
Another example of why I utterly loathe these people. Goad’s buddy (WASP master?) Johnson has been a leading promoter of the Ye fiasco, as has Counter-Currents in general. But Goad won’t say anything in that direction, no siree. The tough Philly brawler knows where the money is coming from.
If Goad was a real two-fisted truth-teller, he would denounce Johnson and Counter-Currents for being prime promoters of Der Movement’s Ye “PR disaster.” Conversely, Johnson should be telling Goad that Jimbo is lacking in “gratitude” and is akin to “a child who doesn’t want to eat his vegetables.” Do we see such animated debate? No. Observing the lack of character of these specimens is as unpleasant as looking at a tapeworm or some other particularly loathsome parasite.
Some of us have been on the right side of the Ye fiasco from the very beginning.
I do agree with Goad about Christianity though – that and the Boomer question are probably the only things we do agree on.
ButtercupDecember 21, 2022 at 8:37 am
When is this nonsense going to end? Torba’s Christian Nationalism book explicitly states that his movement and him are hostile to any forms of racial animus. These people want nothing to do with ethnic nationalism. Their favourite thing to do is to LARP as white nationalists and use “white” and “Christian” interchangeably and pretend that the latter is indispensable to the former. Christian Nationalists are a minority of a minority and will not compromise whatever kooky principles they have chosen that weekend because they are, by nature, hostile to earthly concerns and fixated on heavenly brownie-points. The more the white right leans Christian-conservative, the more it alienates the majority of whites who are either non-christian, or lukewarm private Christians who are publicly liberals.
True.
My brief prescription:
Like it or not, Christianity, particularly on the Right, will be with us for some time to come. Therefore, we need to find a modus vivendi that allows peaceful coexistence between Far Right Christians and non-Christians. I see most of the onus here being on the Christian side, as they are typically the ones who cause these difficulties to begin with.
Let the Christians sort out their own house, without our help, and leave us in peace; they should proselytize their fellow White Christians into becoming racialists instead of proselytizing non-Christian White racialists into becoming Christians. Peaceful coexistence means that the endless Christian aggression against the rest of us must stop. If they state that “spreading the good word” is an essential part of their faith and cannot be abandoned, then peaceful coexistence will be impossible.
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