In der news.
Important: Western Destiny Book Review – Quigley’s The Evolution of Civilizations.
Following up on this. The Norwegian case bears further analysis. I know any extremely ethnocentric WNs who of course do not like non-Whites, but none of them advocate persecuting mixed-race children and putting them in mental institutions because of their ancestry, like what the altruistic individualists of Norway did to Norwegian-German hybrids (despite the fact that Germans are relatively ethnically close to Norwegians).
If the Norwegians didn’t want those children around, they could have simply deported them all to Germany; it’s not like the Germans at that time were in any position to refuse.
But, no. The Norwegians were so enraged by the mothers violating collective social norms by consorting with the Germans that they became filled with malicious hatred toward the innocent children, who they viciously punished.
That does not sound like altruistic individualism to me.
Pierre de Craonsays:
July 27, 2022 at 10:28 am
Whatever “constructive criticism” there has been in this exchange has come from one side only: that of this site’s host. Thanks to Ted Sallis, mutuality has been notable solely by its absence.
Moreover, KM’s characterization of some of Sallis’s remarks as “noncollegial” stretches the true scholar’s gentlemanly decorum—specifically, in sparing no effort to see his critic’s comments, however intemperate, as springing from impartiality and motivated by a quest for truth—to its limits.
Fuck you, asshole. How’s that for non-collegiality, you retarded nitwit?
You know, I was going to state my usual boilerplate that my criticism of MacDonald’s work is business and not personal (which is of course true). However, after reading the snide comments of the superficial midwit Pierre de Craon my attitude is thus adjusted. The restrained, conciliatory, and friendly attitude manifested in my Riposte to KMacD post is now replaced by a more robust and combative approach.
No Nordicism at TOO of course:
Captainchaossays:
July 27, 2022 at 3:31 pm
Ted Swarthis is a greaseball of Eye-talian descent who has openly stated that he wishes to see racially superior Northern Europeans mongrelized by Southern Europeans. Nordicism needs to be promoted to protect Nordic ethnic genetic interests against such an outcome.
That is of course at outright lie, like everything else Nordicists say. Please point out anything in my work that says that I wish to see “Northern Europeans mongrelized by Southern Europeans.”
Who wants to miscegenate who? Let’s see:
- 1. The Feller separation plan, once endorsed by Duke, placed Southern Italians and Greeks with Puerto Ricans in “Minoria.”
- 2. McCulloch’s original separation plan had Southern Europeans together with various forms of non-Whites.
- 3. Who collaborated with the Jews to racially integrate White ethnic neighborhoods and their schools, and who has been enabling illegal Afro-Asiatic immigration into Italy?
- 4. Who lives in other people’s nations as “expats” – mating with native women?
The Nordicist cries out in pain as he strikes you.
I present facts; they can only reply with childish insults. All of their claims of superiority are compensation for the fact that they are mere pale shadows of their ancestors.
Just like what happened to the Meds after the Fall of Rome, the Nords are now well into their dysgenic phase. It is unfortunate since I agree with Thiriart that we need all Europeans, but now we are all degenerate, you and we together.
I have just begun the struggle against MacDonald. The old carefree and friendly Sallis is over.
…an argument in Sallis’s writing…
Have you noticed that certain retired American professors do not know the proper convention for using apostrophes in English language writing?
I suppose that the Herrenvolk write as they damn please. Rules and conventions are for lesser beings!
I oppose mass vaccination with the dangerous mRNA genetic slurry…
Challenge to Jeelvy – without doing any further research, based only on the information and knowledge you had when you wrote that, please explain to us what you think it is how those vaccines work.
Counter-Currents’ pet antivaxx lunatic Stronza:
Standard issue vaccines are also bad for everyone, all of the time. There has been an anti-vaccine crusade for over 100 years. I find it tragic that people who won’t take the corona 19 mRNA shot still make sure their little darlings get their 72 doses by the time they’ve finished school. Yes, you read that right. There are several good books explaining why inoculations are bad news.
If Der Movement wins, it’ll be worse than it is now. They’ll set up their Bring Out Your Dead ethnostate at a 14th century level of technology, which will last as long as the Chinese want to keep it around as a zoological exhibit to illustrate how stupid and primitive Whites are. Der Movement is worse than the System, since with then System there is still hope that real racial nationalists can win and build a better society. With Der Movement, racial nationalism will be co-opted to build the Bring Out Your Dead hobbit hole state of no hope and no future.
Gaston from Gab writes:
The criticism of MacDonald can boils down to three points imo:
1) As it has been already pointed out, it doesn’t make absolutely no sense his definition of “individualism” as basically “social conformism and cohesion based on individual merits instead of family kinship”, since the latter is just, well, social conformism and cohesion based on individual merits.
2) Has he shown any good evidence that his form of “individualism” evolved in hunter gatherers from the far north? Speaking logically, it makes more sense that hunter gatherers would evolve to favour social cohesion based on familiar kinship (under the hypothesis that this behaviour has some genetic basis), since their “societies” basically revolved around extended families, whereas it makes logical sense that social cohesion based on individual merits would have been selected for in settled, agriculturalist groups since for them in order to work they need much larger societal structures that vastly exceed the boundaries of one’s family/clan, so people resorting to the family kinship would not be able to mantain an agriculturalist society. I do not claim that I have exhausted all the possibilities but in my opinion the hunter-gatherer hypothesis would favour the other kind of social conformism and cohesion MacDonald has in mind
3) As it has already been pointed out, the family structures in south and east Europe aren’t as strong as implied by MacDonald but are actually “egalitarian”, and I might add that also the “familiar amoralism” in south Italy (since he takes it as an example) is very limitedly concerned with actual family members but has more to do with “family” intended as one’s personal circle, and such circles often work in the same manner he depicts nordic egalitarianism to work, that is social cohesion and conformism based on individual merits- which is basically how every informal spontaneous group functions
I agree.
More Gaston:
I think the first point can be expanded: MacDonald doesn’t define precisely what he means by “egalitarianism” and “collectivism”, so his theory comes out muddled up, but my impression is that by equating partially “egalitarianism” with “individualism” while speaking of hunter gatherers MacDonald means that this egalitarianism is born out of the desire not to be dominated, so out of an individualistic attitude, and one can conceptually make sense of the idea of individualists acting collectivistic in a manner that doesn’t clash with their individualism, that is when each member by his own will agrees to be bound by the group or a pact, but with each of these two concepts social conformism runs counter any individualistic attitude, since social conformism entails to be dominated by social conventions (up to a point) and enforces cohesion out of external sanctions (counting social anxiety as an external sanction as well) rather than out of “internal” free choice.
Furthermore, hunter gatherer groups are typically based on kinship, I can’t grasp how MacDonald inferred that hunter gatherers in the north evolved to ground their societal ties in individual merits instead of kinship, and indeed I propose another view: hunter gatherer “societies” are often egalitarian but settled hunter gatherer groups tend to display less egalitarian social structures, so it simply seems that higher population density(as it happens in settled communities) leads to more complex social structures so a kinship based mechanism for social ties can’t work and a more “impersonal” one is required, and I think that both social conformism and what we can call “hierarchical respect” (that sort of social cohesion based on individual merits MacDonald talks about) as societal mechanisms
to ensure that larger groups do not dismember into smaller ones (let’s say that smaller groups are self-standing instead of being sub-units of a larger one when they do not cooperate to pursue common goals).
Hierarchical respect is more compatible with hunter gatherer’s egalitarianism and individualism than social conformism, which runs counter to it, and it may well be that such a tendency is tied to higher frequency of (more recent) hunter gatherer genes, at least it makes conceptually sense, and it can be that other human groups/races evolved during the neolithic stressing more one mechanism instead of the other (east asians stressing social conformity for example), though it’s clear that both are contemporaneously present in all human populations, though in different proportions, but MacDonald’s failed to show how southern and eastern Europeans are more social conformist rather than “aristocratic egalitarian” than north Europeans (indeed the “aristocratic egalitarianism” MacDonald puts as central to Western civilization originated in SE Europe, Greece specifically, at least as a civilizational paradigm, so to speak)
Laugh at this. Yes, the small area of Northern Europe that is centered upon Central Europe, extends down to Naples, and excludes most of Scandinavia.
Clowns.
anonymsays:
July 28, 2022 at 6:41 am
Sounds like simple envy. Accusing germanic and scandinavian people of being nordicists is laughable. What else should we be? His hysteria about disrespect for southern Europeans is imagined (even though there would be a lot of reason for it, considering how the European Union is more or less is a wealth transfer organization, redistributing money from Germany and Scandinavia to Italy, Spain and Greece.)
Yes, to the extent that Europe’s south really gets wealth transfer from the north, that’s not good and taking handouts results in contempt towards you (but see this from Catiline; see this from Gaston – note Italy). But the issue is complex. I am hearing Balkanoids complain that their countries are not only being deindustrialized, but the agricultural base is also being strip-mined, because “EU rules” (i.e., German-French dictates) tell the Balkanoids that they cannot produce X,Y, and Z and must instead import the items from Western Europe. So, if you wreck people’s economies, then don’t complain when they have no money. How the hell are the Balkanoids going to pay for the imports, much less fund their own social infrastructure, if they are not allowed to produce and sell anything?
In truth, the EU is a genetic interests and territory transfer organization, redistributing the EGI and carrying capacity of Europe to Afro-Asiatic invaders, and if we agree with MacDonald’s thesis – and I assume this scum “anonym” does – then Nordics are to blame for it.
Which is it? Have Nordics wrecked the West with their pathological altruism OR is MacDonald wrong? You can’t have it both ways, Herrenvolk.
And don’t be hysterical about disrespect, you runty penned up chicken Morlocks, you low IQ North African Negroid Moops! Now run along and watch True Romance (mentioned by Der Movement every five minutes) and get over your insane paranoid hysteria, you Eye-talian greaseballs of Pure Black ancestry.
Laugh hysterically at this exchange (emphasis added):
Alfredsays:
July 27, 2022 at 7:36 pm
“highly individualistic but also as highly conformist—what I regard as a paradox in need of explanation”
If we consider an “individualist” to be a rambunctious type unafraid to speak his mind, it’s a paradox. But if by “individualist” you mean someone who is not very attached to his family, never calls his mom, it’s not a paradox. There’s no reason to suppose that this kind of person would be a meek, let’s not the rock the boat type of person. The only paradox is between “individualist” and “collective.”
Reply
Kevin MacDonald
Kevin MacDonaldsays:
July 28, 2022 at 7:25 am
Exactly.
So the TOO definition of “individualism” – which MacDonald supports with “Exactly” – is “someone who is not very attached to his family, never calls his mom.”
At this point, I am seriously entertaining the idea that the Mossad kidnapped the real Kevin MacDonald and replaced him with a surgically-modified “double” whose purpose is to delegitimize MacDonald’s legacy so as to discredit his work about the Jews. How is it possible that the same person who wrote The Trilogy now agrees that an “individualist” is defined as someone who never calls their mother? Am I the only one who thinks that is absolutely ludicrous?
More MacDonald silliness I forgot to correct in my main riposte:
…the settlement patterns of the three groups that populated pre-historic Western Europe—the Scandinavian hunter-gatherers, the Indo-Europeans (mainly north-central Europe and northern Italy), and the Early Farmers from Anatolia (mainly in the southern part of Western Europe).
Err…the “Scandinavian hunter-gatherers” were a mix of WHG and EHG; hunter-gatherers were not unique to Scandinavia. Indo-Europeans were not unique (I don’t know how to interpret “mainly) in the areas designated, and Neolithic farmer ancestry is found throughout all of Europe and is very high in the southern part of Eastern Europe as well, certainly not just Southwestern Europe. Further, Europeans are a mix of these three groups to different extents (granted, some may have very little of one, but still…), it is not like we have three completely distinct racial populations in Europe going back thousands of years. If ignorance is bliss, then the TOO crowd must be a bunch of very happy campers indeed.
And so the curtain falls on The Occidental Observer, the music fades away, and the saddened audience shuffles away to call their mothers on the phone, thus revealing themselves as diehard collectivists.
Ted Swarthis an Eye-talian greaseball? No, no, a thousand times, no! I am actually a seven foot tall ultra-Nordic Swede, who makes Dolph Lundgren look like Danny DeVito by comparison. Now, excuse me, I have to cater to the group of Nigerian migrants I am hosting in my Stockholm apartment – they need to be well fed before I ship them off to Italy. And, no, I am not going to call my mother on the phone. I am, after all, an individualist.
More than anything else, HBD Nordicism is actually bad for Nordics; see this comment. HBD has been a curse on pro-White activism for decades; when is this HBD pseudoscientific nightmare going to end?
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