Category: Rome

Wednesday in Der News

In der news.

This may be the best speech Taylor has ever given (albeit it was not given directly to his intended audience). I urge readers of this blog to spread it around. Taylor has all the makings of a born politician (and I’m praising here, not being sarcastic) and should have run for office – or do so in the future. Despite my areas of disagreement with Amren, I would support such a candidacy.

By the way, if Amren concentrated more on things like this, my areas of disagreement would be minimal.  This is what we need more of, not Asian-worshipping HBD, cheap-shot attacks against White ethnics, and giving a forum to vermin like Hart.

Yes, indeed, let’s have a “hearing” on “White nationalism” in which no White nationalists are invited and, indeed, no persons of European ancestry are even invited to speak.  And we observe a Black woman representing the Right. I mean – can the clownshow of America get any more ludicrous?  And it’s another fail for Der Movement, whose decades of utter failure have led us to this junction of powerlessness, despair, and complete defeat.  Speaking of which…

Pathetic Greg Johnson response to Common Sense Counselor:

CounterCurrentsTV
2 hours ago
One of my readers asked me to reply to this. Basically, I heard someone thinking out loud about my talk and wending his way to the conclusion that no, we should not focus on education as opposed to violence. Instead, he stands for something completely different, namely educating people about just how bad things are for white people — while warning them not to do anything violent. I guess because he is assuming that, no matter how bad things are, we have time to sort them out without violence. Sorry, but I don’t see any fundamental difference between what he said and what I said. I was just a lot clearer. My strong impression is that this guy only half listened to my talk and concluded that I said some very bad things because he has an ax to grind against me. Oh well, I guess I just need to work a little harder.

Wrong (as usual) and self-serving (as usual). I see a huge fundamental difference. CSC is suggesting we be ice-cold honest about the desperate situation we are in, not assert that “yes, things seem a bit bad now, but we are going to win,” always the victory psychosis, always a refusal to face up to “movement” disasters (except when one can blame Spencer and/or Friberg), and always with the tin cup out for panhandling without any actual victories or accomplishments to show for it. CSC is also very clearly calling for action that goes beyond education but falls short of violence – whether I agree with his suggestions or not is a discussion for another day (e.g., rallies and so forth – but boycotts I do agree with), but clearly he’s calling for things apart from folks just posting web articles and selling books and begging for money. I think some folks need to “work a little harder” on their auditory comprehension skills.

It is too bad that CSC answered Johnson in the comments section in a groveling fashion, instead of doing the proper thing, which would be to answer him, directly, in writing, with the same critical force as was used in the original video.  He “doesn’t have an axe to grind” – after essentially stating that Johnson was not fit to be a WN leader.  He also implied that WN “leaders” (like Johnson) sugarcoat reality for their “business model” (rattling the tin cup and selling books).  Which is it?  Is this CSC just too polite?  Does he lack the inner conviction of his beliefs so as to effectively respond when directly challenged by those “leaders” he criticizes?

And, CSC should do a video about the psychological defects and deficiencies behind the repeated Man on White Horse Syndrome humiliations, most recently represented by the Yang Gang fiasco.

I would like to correct any misunderstandings about this post. Without seeing the paper, we cannot say anything about admixture. The paper may very well show admixture in the samples; at this point, we do not know. My point simply is that the fact of changing centroids in and of itself says nothing about admixture. The change could be from admixture, or it could be simply from addition of samples from different ethnies.  You can get gray by mixing white and black paint, or you can get gray be averaging out the colors of separate and distinct cans of white and black paint.  Changing centroids due to admixture would have to be demonstrated by showing that individual samples are admixed, simply averaging the genetics of different unmixed samples is not admixture. Again, at this point, we do not know which of these two possibilities (or a perhaps a bit of both possibilities combined) is correct.  We cannot assume one possibility or the other bases solely on the changing centroids alone.  We not only have to wait for this particular paper, but also to see whether other research groups examine the same samples or, other, similar samples,and generate similar, or different, results..  

I will also note that I have always been agnostic about what the racial provenance of ancient peoples was. I have maintained that the only way to really know is to directly assay ancient remains for their autosomal genetics (and hope those samples are representative of the relevant peoples), and this has heretofore not been done. True, I have always been skeptical about the “movement” narrative, for reasons I have written about over the years, but this has always been a cautious, prudent skepticism, and not any definitive belief. I have always thought that the “evidence” used in the debates has been absurd – “eyeballing” statues, tendentious readings of ancient texts, the work of Frank, etc. .Further, my view was and still is that we need to concentrate on the racial situation today, and in the future, not thousands of years in the past. It was people like Kemp and Pierce and their supporters who were the ones who started the whole acrimonious argument to begin with

An appetizer for the upcoming Roman study:

Results suggest that only 7% of individuals buried at Vagnari were born elsewhere and migrated to Vagnari, while the remaining individuals were either local to Vagnari (58%), or from the southern Italian peninsula (34%). Our results are consistent with the suggestion that Roman Imperial lower‐class populations in southern Italy sustained their numbers through local reproduction measures, and not through large‐scale immigration from outside the Italian peninsula.

Kemp weeps.

Want to read something that shows you where feminist man-hating is heading?  Read Jack Vance’s City of the Chasch in Planet of Adventure, in particular the section on “The Seminary of the Female Mystery.”  Vance being prescient once again – better than the idiot Tolkien and his juvenile fantasies about “orcs.”  By the way, the good guys win in the Vance story, as the men revolt and destroy the Seminary and kill the Priestesses.  Unfortunately, the catalyst for that was a bit of White Knighting, but you can’t have everything.

Roissy:

Trump recently fired Scandicuck DHS secretary Kirstjen Nielsen, because the border had become a slip n’ slide for hundreds of thousands of Central Americans under her watch. Even the enemy media noticed and had to act as if they didn’t report just a few weeks ago that there wasn’t a national emergency at the border.
Trump also did a 180 on legal immigration, recently stating that America “was full” and didn’t need more immigrants, contradicting the enthusiasm for legal immigration he displayed in his SOTU address.
Word has it Stephen Miller (PBU that most righteous and based of specials) is taking over all immigration related policy matters in Trump’s administration.
What gives? Is this more hot air from Trump? Did he get a fright from internal polling? Is he an amnesiac? Is he too lazy to remember his policy proposals from one week to the next and just wants to ride a wave of feelz on whatever banal thought enters his mind? Did Ivanka go on vacation? Did Jared? Did the maturing Barron give his dad a suddenly judgmental gaze and a warning about his legacy? Did Melania finally stop crying over separated beanlets and show Donald the sharp edge of her Outer Hajnal soul?
Did Trump catch an earful from…us? Does vanity preclude me from wondering if dissidents to the prevailing orthodoxy, threatening to abandon Trump for his MAGA betrayals, pulled President Trump back to the essence of Campaign Trump?

No, Roissy, no. It’s like this – Trump is a lazy, stupid, imbecilic, vulgar buffoon, who, literally, believes and promotes whatever was the latest idea whispered in his ear. Before the State of the Union, Jew Kushner and converted Jew Ivanka were doing the whispering, more recently, Jew Miller has been whispering.  Obviously, one has to be either an ethnic Jew, or a converted Jew family member, to be allowed near Trump’s hairy orange ear.  Weasel-faced goys like you (or mick Bannon) are not allowed.

And as regard the moronic HBD Cunt Hajnal crap turds like you continue to peddle, you can only hope that you had an “Outer Hajnal” ethnocentric White as US President, instead of the retarded bloated fat cuck shitheel currently occupying the White House.

Let’s not be too hard on the Swedes.  They wuz Romans, after all.  No, wait…

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Der Empire Strikes Back

In der news.

That was quick – I saw on some websites and forums that the usual suspects are commenting on the preliminary information on the Rome study.  Besides the expected critiques about sample sizes and representation of the samples (critiques that would not have been made had the [unofficial at this point] findings been different).  These types ignore the elephant in the room (Romans were more Julius Evola than Dolph Lundgren), and instead focus on misinterpretations on details. For example, looking at the change in the centroid from Central Italian to South Italian going from Republic to Empire, concomitant with the addition of Levantine samples, these folks declare that this means that South Italians are descended from those Levantines.  Until the actual paper comes out, we do not know anything about what it will say about admixture, but the change in the centroid does not necessarily imply any admixture. A centroid is the genetic average of the population samples.  For example, note that Iron Age/Republic has a Central Italian centroid (or so the online statements assert), even though the samples themselves are not Central Italian.  An analogy – imagine a set of samples that are, say, 60% English and 40% Swiss, with a North France centroid. The genetic average of 60% English and 40% Swiss in this case would overlap with North France.  Very well.  Let’s assume that some Western Asian samples are added to the mix. The genetic average – the centroid – of all the samples would now overlap with Swiss. This does not mean that Swiss are descended from Western Asians; instead, it simply means that the addition of the Western Asian samples moves the genetic average along the cline of gene frequencies so the centroid now overlaps with Swiss rather than North France. In other words, the clinal gene frequencies in Europe have Swiss a bit more in the direction of Western Asia than is Northern France (or England for that matter). It does not imply – positively or negatively – anything about admixture. Admixture may have occurred or it may not have in this case.  Historically speaking,. of course we know there is some admixture in Europe, and based in simple geography and history such is expected more on the periphery. But it is much less than the over-inflated fantasies of Der Movement, and it certainly is not proven by the simple fact of shifting centroids when other samples are added to the mix. Admixture would have to be shown by careful examination of each sample, not by the average of different samples that happen to each be of a different ethnic origin.

We should expect more hand-waving antics from the Nutzis as more information comes out.

Things ARE desperate.  Apart from the HBD/IQ nonsense, that was a good critique of Johnson’s “all will be well” Scandza speech.  Note that the fellow dipped his toe in the water of considering whether tin cup panhandling for ”D’Nations” plays a role in the attitudes he criticizes.  I agree that things are bad, things are terrible, and things are desperate – because Der Movement has utterly failed.

Overall, with the caveat mentioned, the video is excellent, and is obviously much more in accord with my thinking that is Johnson’s speech.  Is there a category of negativism worse than desperate?  That’s where we are now.

Yes, we need to raise anxiety, and, at the same time, give those people thus activated a productive outlet for their activist energies.  The problem is that people become aware of the race problem, they give their “D’Nations,” and then they observe the outcome of the money they have invested in the “movement”- essentially outcomes such as this.

Are we then surprised that some folks then act out their desperation?

Then we have those who tell us all will be well, we have 200 years (!), and just send in the shekels. We’re finished.  Der Movement has effectively killed the White race.

I will give Kevin Strom full credit here for a not-so-subtle critique of the HBD cult: Emphasis added:

As Charles Murray proved in his supremely important book, Human Accomplishment, fully 99 per cent. of scientific discoveries were made by modern or ancient White Europeans. This despite the much-vaunted high intelligence of Jews. This despite the acknowledged scholarship of medieval Arabs when Europe was in the Dark Ages. This despite the higher average IQ of East Asians. This despite tens of thousands of years of dysgenic breeding due to our civilization protecting the weak, and 2,000 years of dysgenically enforcing celibacy on some of our most intelligent men. This despite a religion which exalts all that is weak, makes us welcome and worship Jews as especially holy, and which deliberately stunted our spiritual and intellectual growth by enforcing primitive Semitic fairy tales as dogma — sometimes by outright murdering the men who were trying to free us. 

Ninety-nine per cent.! That is supremely significant. There is something special about us. Something which isn’t quite captured by IQ tests. Something allied with creativity and beauty and intelligence but which is more than the sum of those things.

I will assume that Strom would not approve of an “Arctic Alliance” between Europeans, Asians, and Jews, particularly not such an “alliance” that has Europeans has he cringing subaltern junior partners, with a Jeurasian mongrelization scheme enacted to forever eliminate the original European stocks.

I will also assume that Strom is not planning to start writing for the Jew Unz. So, we see, once again, that WN 1.0 is far superior to the degenerate WN 2.0 version.

I think that the “cognitive decline” began the day he was born.

Anyone else tired of seeing the greasy broad nosed mongrel Ocasio-Cortez every time you open Yahoo news?  Being an imbecile and hitting the wall before age 30 doesn’t make you a political superstar.  You can put lipstick on a pig (in this case literally), but it’s still a pig.  Too bad she isn’t 35 (although she looks like she passed that watershed age years ago) – the Alt Right can’t be endorsing her for President just yet.

Does the great and good Desmond Jones have any commentary about how Spain will be ethnically homogeneous to the end of time, forever and ever, amen? Or was that just Italy and Russia?

Behold a turd.  MAGA!  Pepe!  Kek!

Lactose tolerance in Northern Europeans.  Alt Righters, chug that milk!  Julius Caesar will just stick to dat dere wine instead.

The main carbohydrate in milk is lactose, which must be hydrolyzed to glucose and galactose before the sugars can be digested. While 65% or more of the total human population are lactose intolerant, in some human populations lactase activity commonly persists into adulthood. Lactose tolerance is exceptionally widespread in Northern European countries such as Sweden and Finland, with tolerance levels of 74% and 82%, respectively. Theoretically, this may result either from a strong local selection pressure for lactose tolerance, or from immigration of lactose tolerant people to Northern Europe. We provide several lines of archaeological and historical evidence suggesting that the high lactose tolerance in North Europeans cannot be explained by selection from in situ milk consumption. First, fresh cow milk has not belonged to the traditional diet of Swedes or Finns until recent times. Second, not enough milk has been available for adult consumption. Cattle herding has been neither widespread nor productive enough in Northern Europe to have provided constant access to fresh milk. We suggest that the high prevalence of lactose tolerance in Finland in particular may be explained by immigration of people representing so-called Corded Ware Culture, an early culture representing agricultural development in Europe.

Meet Joe Biden.

The most obvious reveal of Trump being a fraud is his unwillingness to address this problem.

Roissy weeps.  And, of course, Sallis is proven right once again.  Trump the fraud.  Trump the buffoon. Trump the cuck.  Trump with his Jewish family connections.  Touchback Trump who would legalize the illegals.  You read it all here, years ago, and now it is coming to pass.

So much winning!  Victory is just around the corner!

No, defeat is just around the corner.    Decades of activism, millions of dollars “donated,” all sorts of retarded pontifications form the “leaders” and all we have to show for it all is this.  But, hey, rank-and-file, keep on empowering dat dere affirmative action policy!  And remember your dogma – Rome was founded by Vikings!  Milk-chugging Vikings!  Dat right!

The reality: So much losing!

Genetic History of Rome Coming?

Preliminary; emphasis added.

There is some talk that a paper is coming out soon tracing the genetic history of Rome (and surrounding areas of Italy) from prehistory to more modern times. Some preliminary summaries were put online, apparently written up by someone who saw an academic presentation. If we assume that the material posted online is accurate (we have to await the actual paper), what can we say about it?  Again, this assumes that the material below is authentic, which I give no guarantee to. I am just reporting what is online at this point. Whether it turns out to be true or bogus, only time will tell.

Presentation by Hannah Moots. No pictures, not allowed. Paper coming out in a couple of months, done with Pinhasi and Pritchard.

134 genomes, spanning 12000s BP to Renaissance and enlightenment. 0.5-3.5X coverage.

Time period covered.

Vast majority of sampling sites concentrated in Rome and surrounds, lowlands of Latium around the Tiber River, up to Ostia, almost all restricted to Lazio. Some extend to Abruzzo, South Le Marche, none, or maybe one, in Tuscany, and on the South of Tuscany if that.

Couple of samples from Sardinia.

Areas covered.

I’ll give a PCA position and a ADMIXTURE description for each time period. Note that the ADMIXTURE only had Iranian, EEF, WHG, EHG and Levant_N, no CHG. Where Iran N appears, it may be a stand-in for CHG. There is something quite puzzling in the list below, mislabeling in the slides? But that doesn’t explain it either.

UPPER PALEOLITHIC

All WHG

Which of course makes sense. In the Upper Paleolithic, only the Western Hunter Gatherers were present.  All ‘high-trust,” no doubt.

NEOLITHIC

Mostly EEF, some WHG. Some Iran_N, quite a significant quantity, as much as WHG. PCA position Between Sardinia and Maltese, east of Sardinia, closer to Sardinia than to Maltese

As I’ve written about many times, Southern Europe was heavily Early European Farmer – the Neolithic farmer expansion from Anatolia/Near East – since the Neolithic. The Paleo/Neo divide that the “movement” breathes heavily about was in place before the rise of the Classical Civilization.  The “Iranian” may be CHG ancestry.

BRONZE AGE (EARLY)

Overlaps modern-day Sardinia, Iran_N percentage declines, WHG and EEF increases

(Note that this represents a Europeanisation of the gene pool!)

Sardinian-like genepool, even more EEF than before.

IRON AGE TO REPUBLICAN PERIOD (700-20BC)

Note: Separated from previous period by 1000 year gap.

Fewer samples, of those that exist 60% overlap with North Italy, 40% overlap with South Italy and Sicily, centroid of overall cluster in central Italy but no samples occur there, very wide spread.

EHG appears, Levant N Appears for the first time, sporadic and inhomogeneous distribution, Iran_N increases further.

This may be the most important set of samples; unfortunately, they are “fewer.”  I say these are the most important because this is the period of Roman history that, according to Der Movement, the Ancient Romans were akin to Dolph Lundgren walking around in a toga. Note that the centroid of the samples (not any individual sample itself) are akin to Central Italy – a North/South mix, a bit more slanted to the North (60% to 40%). “60% overlap with North Italy, 40% overlap with South Italy and Sicily” is hardly Dolph Lundgren walking around in a toga. Note that Levantine and “Iranian” influences, in addition to EHG, are present at this early time. These are parts of the Italian genepool dating back to the Iron Age. Combined with EEF, that likely explains much of the “Southwestern Asian” or “Anatolian” (or whatever) “findings” from ancestry testing companies (with their inadequate parental/reference populations) for customers from this region.

This period of Roman history seems to be rather genetically heterogeneous. The centroid is Central Italian, but no samples occur there. Was the population basically a bipartite Northern and Southern Italian mix?  Der Movement would of course infer Northern Italian Patricians and brutal and stupid Southern Italian Plebs. None of them seem to cluster with Scandinavia though.

IMPERIAL PERIOD

Dense cluster centroid between Greeks, Cypriots, South Italians/Sicilians, and Syrians, closest to Sicilians. Long tail stretching from central cluster to Syrians and Iraqi Jews. Couple of Northern-shifted samples overlapping N Italy, France, Spain.

Iran_N increases further, Levant N again sporadic and inhomogeneous.

During the Imperial Period Rome becomes more cosmopolitan, as historically noted, with increased population coming from Greece and the Levant, but some from more Northern and Western regions. This shifts the centroid from a more Central Italian to Southern Italian/Sicilian centroid, consistent with the modern clinal gene frequencies shown here.

LATE ANTIQUITY

Tight cluster centroid in S Italy, in the same place as in the previous period. Southern tail to Middle East disappears. N Italian, Northern European and NW European outliers exist.

Later, the centroid remains similar to Southern Italy, but perhaps a bit more Northern and Western than before – “Southern tail to Middle East disappears. N Italian, Northern European and NW European outliers exist.”

AFTER

Resemble modern central Italians.

I would assume that the increase in “N Italian, Northern European and NW European” shifted the centroid back to Central Italian.

Thus, during the period of Der Movement’s favorite era – the early days to the end of the Republic – these data  (again assuming they are authentic) show, crudely speaking, a Central Italian centroid Rome that was split between 60% similar to Northern Italy and 40% similar to Southern Italy/Sicily.

Cosmopolitan migration into Rome pushed the centroid a bit more South/East along the cline of gene frequencies to a more Southern Italian centroid during the peak of Empire. Without seeing the actual data, this could simply be the addition of Greeks, Jews, and Syrians to the population in addition to the bulk of the pre-existing population, rather than a panmixia.  But at this point, who knows?  Some admixture may be possible.

Later, an increased influx from the North and West shifted the centroid back to Central Italian, into modern times. 

Lactase persistence alleles appear abruptly after 0 AD.

Romans were therefore lactose intolerant during the period that Der Movement asserts was Leif Erickson as Consul of Rome.

Heterozygosity reaches modern level after Iron Age.

No information given on uniparentals.

Isotope information not available yet, no way apart from archaeological context to tell between migrants and locals.

Represents a preliminary effort, more work coming later.

If we assume that these data are authentic and if we further assume that the “more work” does not alter the story significantly (two big “ifs”), then the essential Der Movement narrative is not supported.  The only point of agreement (that no one has ever substantially argued against) is that the city of Rome (and some other areas) became more cosmopolitan during the Imperial Era. That there were migrants and slaves in the city is well known.  However, these data paint a crude genetic picture of a Republican Rome whose genetic centroid was Central Italian, a more Southern Italian Imperial and Late Antiquity Rome, and then shifting back to Central Italian in more modern times.  I suppose that Der Movement can try and salvage something here by asserting that “degeneration” (if such actually occurred, which is debatable) was accompanied by the Central to Southern Italian centroid shift. However, the more fundamental point is that these data (again, if authentic, which I do not guarantee) can be interpreted as suggesting that Rome, the Republic, the whole story, was founded by a lactose intolerant, EEF-enriched, Southern European people very crudely akin to a population of 60% Northern Italian and 40% Southern Italian/Sicilian. I suppose that Der Movement would claim that the Patricians were of that 60% and the Plebian rabble were all of the 40%.  Regardless, it is doubtful that any of the sample data are going to fit a narrative stating that Ancient Rome, of any period, was composed of Celto-Germanic Nordics.

Needless to say, from the standpoint of EGI and of biopolitics, all of this is irrelevant.  It is all completely irrelevant to the political facts on the ground today as they related to genetic interests.  From the standpoint of analyzing Der Movement, it is interesting. No doubt that whatever the final outcome of this research, the Nutzis will say “Arthur Kemp was Right,” although it undoubtedly will not truly be so.

More of the Marching Movement

In all cases, emphasis added.

Traditionalism:

HungarianFashionista

Posted January 5, 2019 at 6:08 am | Permalink

Lajos Kassai, one of the intellectual leaders of the Hungarian Right says this: someone’s true race is shown by the kind of archetypal image that stirs his soul. So true. Show me a sandy beach with palm trees, or an image of a rainforest, and to me, it could be on another planet. Show me Mediterranean or Nordic images, and I say, “Hm, nice”. But when I see an image of the steppe, it feels like coming home. I’m a descendant of White people who did not migrate to the West.

Hey, I like outer space images; hence, I’m a Martian.

And, we can ask – are there any hobbit holes on the steppe?  Well, hamsters and gerbils live on the steppe, with their snug burrows, so I suppose a Hungarian traditionalist can be snug in his steppe hobbit hole as well.

The Zman:

The Greeks are a bit different. I think it is because the West has so much more respect for the Greeks than the Romans. Maybe it is the fact the Greeks never conquered the world, like the Romans.

The history books I have read have left out the Roman conquest of Germania, Scandinavia, Scotland and Ireland, Eastern Europe, the rest of Asia other than the Near East, sub-Saharan Africa, Australia, the Americas, the Pacific Islands, etc.  Perhaps Mr. Zman can recommend a history text to us where those events are properly chronicled.

And the West will respect people who conquered less?  Maybe the West should have done a bit less colonization then?

I think we should have Carlson 2020 rather than anyone else.  But, hey, Tuck, it’s race and civilization, not “happiness.”

I recently watched the 1998 Moby Dick miniseries starring Patrick Stewart.  Very well done – it is recommended. Ahab is the ultimate Moralpath, and the story is a warning that pure moralpathy unleavened with pragmatism can lead to disaster.  On the other hand, pure pragmatism is doomed to failure and utter stagnation – it is worthless. Even further on the other hand, however destructive Ahab’s obsession turned out to be, it is much better than cowardly hiding from life and from the inexorable march to the future by hiding “snug in one’s hobbit hole,” letting other races do what Whites once dared.

I essentially agree with this.  The memes are more important than the source.  And that’s something the thin-skinned, hysterically womanish quota queens can never understand with their cordon sanitaire around EGI Notes.

An expert on female behavior tells us what’s what.  Next – commentary from Pee Wee Herman about weightlifting.

Maybe this is explained by all those “British Asians,” eh, Silkers?  I don’t understand why the HBD VDARE site has any problem with this.  Isn’t the lowly White subaltern race supposed to serve their “high, high-IQ” Oriental masters?  Maybe throw in some “measured groveling,” as well – right Derb?

The answer: Either Trump is the most incompetent, lazy, and low-energy President in US history, or he simply doesn’t care (or actually secretly supports the invasion).

But, hey, let’s not forget the Quota Kings (Coulter) and Queens: In Trump We Trust, the God Emperor, the last chance for White America, an American Caesar who will save White demographics.

Wrong, wrong, they’re always wrong.

Sallis in 2015: Trump is a fraud and a vulgar, ignorant buffoon.

Sallis – right, right, he’s always right.

How does a bearded man in a red pickup truck transform into a red-bearded man?

Can TOQ Live host Richard Spencer and Greg Johnson together?  Seriously.  Let them actually debate, instead of sniping.  Also, if TOQ is interested in “academic” style material, my recent refutation of leftist misinterpretations of Lewontin would fit the bill.  Ball in your court, gentlemen.  

SLC News, 7/14/18

More stupidity.

Antifa Jeff rides again. Sessions bestirs himself to action.

The federal government has quietly revived its investigation into the murder of Emmett Till, the 14-year-old African-American boy whose abduction and killing remains, almost 63 years later, among the starkest and most searing examples of racial violence in the South.

The Justice Department said that its renewed inquiry, which it described in a report submitted to Congress in late March, was “based upon the discovery of new information.” 

MAGA!  Pepe!  Kek!  Roissy: “Sessions as Attorney General alone justifies the entire Trump Presidency.”

Question: Is it possible Sessions is a mole, a radical leftist who spent a lifetime posing as a hardcore conservative so as to burrow deep into the mainstream Right, and to then ascend to a position of power and authority in which he can enact leftist tactics to subvert America?  Or is he just another over-rated quota queen cuck?  The end result is the same.  Of course, Der Movement will once again be silent about Sessions; after all, he’s “one of the boys.”

The despicable Durocher lies once again, this time about Ancient Roman demographics. By the way, that essay proves once again that lies about Ancient Rome are made in large part to make parallels to the modern situation; being dimwitted, Type Is cannot understand today’s peril without being shown historical cartoon comparisons, as if they were mentally retarded five year-olds (which they are the mental equivalent of).  Notice what blog Durocher chooses for this trash – the ultra-Nordicist, anti-White ethnic TOO.

About Rome, see this.  And this.

Copy, copy, steal, steal, steal.  Have Orientals invented anything in the last 1000 years?

Spencer expresses himself:

@RichardBSpencer

Anglo-Saxons were once the American ruling class. We are now a dispossessed elite–symbolized by the fact that the establishment’s inner sanctum, #SCOTUS, is Jewish and Catholic.

Don’t worry Richie.  You are still the ruling class in the American “movement.”  We can all sigh with relief over the great competence demonstrated by, say, yourself and your buddy Greg “open borders meeting vetting” Johnson.  

Then we have:

‏ @RichardBSpencer

Just in case there was any misunderstanding–though I, of course, recognize ethnic differences, I do seek broader European unity; though I do lament my people’s decline, I take responsibility for it. The WASP death was both suicide and murder.

More suicide than murder.  Let’s consider the 1965 immigration act.  Let’s blame it on the Jews (and Irish).  Very well.  Who let the Jews (and Irish) into the country in the first place?  Who let in the ultra-leftist Scalias and Alitos to displace the red-blooded patriotic White Americans like Earl Warren?  Who let in the Polacks, five of whom are needed to screw in a light bulb?  Forget about Negro slavery, we won’t even mention that.  The Anglo-Saxons should not have let in any other peoples after the Revolution. They can’t blame “the Jews” for that.

Roissy fantasizes:

If an arm of the Deep State was involved with the Rich murder and two government employees were the hired hit men, don’t wake up the next day after the news drops expecting life in America to be the same. It will change everything.

Let’s say the story is correct and Rich was killed by “Deep State” operatives and not by feral Negroes.  That’s a big IF, but let’s assume it is true.  Let’s further assume that the truth comes out and is not buried by the same Deep State.  Very well.  What does it change?  Nothing.  Trump will just post some jackass tweets, demanding that Sessions “do something.”  Antifa Jeff will ignore those pleas and instead focus his (very limited) energies on more “hate crimes” prosecutions of Unite the Right attendees for the “crime” of defending themselves, or on dredging up 60 year-old murders of little Negroes. The media will ignore/scoff/mock and the Alt Right will babble on about Kali Yuga and “the Moops.”  The Right is inept, Trump is a buffoon, Sessions is a far-left cuck, and the media are corrupt.

How’s that mainstreaming working out for you?  Once again, Sallis is right, and Der Movement wrong.

In Der News

Odds and ends in der news.

Some old news, but still relevant.

The USA continues to follow the insane directives, promoted especially by the Obama administration, to continue to decrease yields of US nuclear weapons.  Last I read, they wanted to get rid of all the low megaton range B83s – which themselves can’t destroy deep targets – and replace them with low yield “dial-a-yield” weapons.  I have nothing against the “dial-a-yield” concept, as long as megaton range yields are included in the spectrum, which was NOT the case for the leftist Obama-pansy military planning.  Meanwhile, Russia continues to have high-yield weapons, and with improving accuracy.  They’ll be able to take out fortified targets, while US bombs would be hard-pressed to mimic Hiroshima.  Another example of Western weakness and degeneracy – but let’s put ‘Western” in scare quotes.

“Even nuclear weapons have limited effectiveness at destroying the deepest or widely separated underground bunkers,” reads a 2005 report from the Union of Concerned Scientists. “For example, an earth penetrating weapon using the 1.2 megaton B83 warhead—the highest yield weapon in the U.S. nuclear stockpile—could crush underground bunkers to a depth of about 1000 feet. Deeper bunkers can be constructed with modern tunneling equipment, and are essentially invulnerable to nuclear attack.”

Pan-Europeanists = early Rome.
Ethnonationalists – Greek city states. Didn’t Stoddard compare WWI with the Peloponnesian War?
Excerpt of comment from AltRight.com:

I prefer Spencer’s speeches to Jared Taylor citing stats about how Jews and Asians are smarter than Huwhites.

Playing Out The String: Rome

The last century (or so) of the Western Roman Empire.

I will consider two relevant books, building on previous discussion at this blog on the subject of the Fall of Rome.

The first book: Theodosius: The Empire at Bay, by Williams and Friell

This book begins with the battle of Adrianople and its outcome (disastrous for Rome, good for the Goths and, hence, for Der Movement), focuses its major sections on Theodosius and his reign and its implications, and then finishes with a brief epilogue of the post-Theodosius Roman world and the question as to the inevitability of the collapse of the Western Roman Empire.

The historical background for the reign of Theodosius, and its influence on European history, which are covered in this book, are a matter of record, can be read (in summarized form) online, and we need not repeat all of that here.

Instead, we can address certain issues of interest to this blog.

This book makes some good points, which usually escape the obsessives and fetishists.  The Fall of Rome, the Western Empire at any fate, can be effectively explained without resort to sweaty rambling about “racial degeneration through admixture.”  

What about the Decline of Rome, as opposed to its Fall, if we agree that a “decline” took place?   

That Rome changed is without a doubt, but what do you expect?  The Theodosius book makes (what should be) the obvious point that the gigantic land empire of Rome could be maintained over time, and against the constant barrage of threats, only by co-opting and assimilating the subject peoples.  This process invariably would erode the specifically Roman – as in the original Romans – nature of the state. By state I mean the empire as a whole, as well as the nature of its rulers, as emperors eventually came from non-Roman and then non-Italian origins. This does not imply a mass panmixia of the population.  In other words, the Roman state, its citizenship, and its leadership, eventually came to include all the various ethnies found within it, so that any specific and exclusive character to the state was lost.  That is not the same as postulating “racial degeneration through admixture” – cultural and political degeneration may be more accurate, if one holds the narrow character of the early Roman Republic as the ideal.. But again, these changes are the price of establishing an empire – an integrated land empire especially – through conquest.

Other obvious points made is that as peoples become more civilized, their willingness and effectiveness as warriors diminishes to some extent (genetic pacification, along with cultural and social changes), and so the need exists to expand the pool of prospective soldiers; for Rome, from Italy to Gaul and Spain to the Danubian provinces and then, ultimately to Germanic and Asiatic barbarians (the latter of which contributed to the Fall).

So, yes, we observe the inevitable changes in the nature of the Roman state, the elevation of Emperors of non-Roman (in the strictest sense) and non-Italian heritage, and the creation of a multiethnic civil service and military force.

None of this should come as a surprise – was it possible for Rome itself, alone or in conjunction with local Italian allies, to administer and defend this vast territory against constant threats (Germans, Persians, Huns, Alans, etc.) for century after century?

The choice was between a Roman Rome or a multiethnic Empire.  A strictly ethnically Roman empire was an impossibility. Note that the European colonial empires of the last few centuries were for the most part overseas empires, local elites were co-opted even then, and these empires lasted not very long before collapsing and resulting in a backflow of colonized peoples into Europe itself.  One could argue that the overseas colonial model ended up being a worse disaster than Rome’s.


Another point made is that conquest of the empire, which brought with it all the goodies initially extracted from the conquered lands, was economically, politically, and organizationally easier than maintenance of its vast holdings over the centuries.

It is true that there was a lot of political corruption in the Later Western Roman Empire, but that had nothing to do with racial degeneration, as the Theodosius book clearly demonstrates. The chapter “The Topheavy Empire” discusses in detail the causes, types of, and consequences of, the excessive levels of political corruption that grew over time in the Roman Empire, particularly in the West.

So, yes, lots of political corruption. But then there was always corruption in Rome, including in the Republic period, also including Pierce’s favorite, Sulla.

Indeed, corruption throughout the Classical period was a problem, and it is also important to distinguish political corruption from moral.  Political corruption is always a problem for bureaucracies, and the larger the bureaucracy grows – as one would expect from a large, established empire over time – the more political corruption grows.  Moral corruption has some overlap with political corruption, but the two are not the same.  One could have political corruption without a large amount of moral corruption spread throughout society; on the other hand, political corruption is usually found whenever moral corruption is widespread.  So, it does not follow that political corruption in the Late Western Roman Empire necessarily means that that moral corruption was growing; one can argue that the Christian Late Western Roman Empire was significantly less morally corrupt than the Rome of Sulla, Caesar, Tiberius, Caligula, or Nero. Likewise, the America of Tammany Hall, the Grant administration, and the Harding administration, had enormous amounts of political corruption, but was far less morally corrupt than the America of today.

So, it is understandable that growing powers and established empires will have political corruption and such corruption is bad and it is destructive, but it is not the same as moral corruption, and there is no clear connection of corruption to “racial degeneration” as Der Movement typically asserts.

The racial degeneration theory raises the question as to why the more racially degenerate Eastern Roman Empire lasted a thousand years longer than the West.  Perhaps because the Fall of the West was due in large part to military reasons and not racial degeneracy, and that the East had the wealth to “buy off threats.” This the West could not effectively do. Of course, Der Movement will assert that unlike the degenerate later empire, the noble, Aryan, Dolph Lundgren-like original Romans would never stoop to buy off their enemies. Yeah, sure.

Indeed, the Roman accommodation of the Goths under Theodosius, and their treatment as equals and settlement in Roman lands as an integrated unassimilated group – that would later prove disastrous – was done because of serious Roman manpower shortages and the realization of other threats over the horizon – Huns and Alans.  Manpower shortages, coupled perhaps to Frost’s “genetic pacification” of the shrunken population, and, most importantly, the constant hammering from “barbarian” threats – Goth, Huns, Alans, etc. – were too much for the Empire to bear, especially when coupled to strategic idiocy and infighting from the leadership of the state.

Under those circumstances, one wonders how the Western Empire lasted as long as it did, not that it collapsed.

On another point, if the Romans had been in a better positon in the West, and had the Goths (and Vandals and other Germanics) been more reasonable and far-sighted, the initial steps of Roman and Germanic cooperation (e.g., Frankish generals and Gothic soldiers serving in the Western Roman military, as well as the cooperation at Chalons), could have led to the evolution to a more modern Europe without the interregnum of the Dark Ages.

As an amusing aside, as part of moral posturing on the part of the authors of this book about ‘racism and xenophobia,” they note the anti-barbarian sentiments of Synesius of Cerene who proposed that “Let all fair-haired men be banished from positions of power.”  Cue fainting fits from Der Movement. (Jordanes’ Getica is more in Der Movement style).

The authors suggest that Synesius’ opinions were unrealistic, before telling us all about the disintegration of the Western Roman empire under the onslaught of the selfsame barbarians critiqued by Synesius, including “allies” of one emperor or another (or of their behind the scenes handlers).  Does the name “Alaric” ring a bell?  So, the authors need to do a better job of refuting Synesius than SJW hysteria about “racism and xenophobia.”

This book is the mirror image of the Theodosius biography; it gives a brief summary of what went on before the main subject of this volume, including a brief history of the reign of Theodosius himself, and then concentrates on the last decades of the Western Roman Empire, including an analysis of what went wrong.

The Vandal conquest of Rome’s African province was devastating for the Western Empire, cutting off a significant source of revenue, leading to bankruptcy and the inability to maintain an effective independent military force.  Grain shipments were disrupted, as was trade in the Mediterranean.  The Roman aristocracy selfishly refused to contribute to the empire’s defense, with either men or money, and the provinces began losing loyalty to Rome (itself obsessed with palace intrigue and civil wars), with an increased emphasis on local loyalties and dissension due to religious conflicts.  Superimposed on this was the constant barbarian threat, and the split of the empire between West and East, with the wealthier areas in the East – an East that increasingly thought of itself as a self-contained entity superior to the West. Therefore, the Western Empire spun increasingly out of control.  “Racial degeneration through admixture” need not play a part in any of this.

The author points out that Romans, and then Italians in general, soured on the idea of military service quite early, and were content to let border provincials carry the brunt of the duty, leading to a situation that made the peoples of Italy increasingly unfit as effective soldiers (20th century Italian military disasters can be considered in this light, perhaps – a too-long period of genetic pacification?).  This is more a function of genetic pacification, overcivilized softening with prosperity, and altered social mores, as it is any “racial degeneration through admixture.” The last “Conclusion” chapter of this book sums up the many inter-related problems faced by the Late Western Roman Empire and the (postulated by the author) “inevitability” of its collapse.  

In any case, empires built through conquest (of one form or another) are inherently unstable, and this has nothing to do with “racial admixture.”  The very maintenance of such an empire over time drains its vitality and resources, and degenerates the population (in ways not dependent upon “admixture” but of course admixture may in theory also occur). For example, would anyone seriously expect the Assyrian Empire to still exist today even if we assume the Assyrians maintained strict racial purity?

As regards the various leaders of the late Western Roman Empire, I am sure at least some of them had an at least an implicit understanding that they were just “playing out the string” – doing the best they could under circumstances in which a bad ending was more or less inevitable, doing their duty as long as they could, delaying that inevitable bad ending for as long as possible, going through the motions of empire even when a point was reached that the “Western Roman Empire” was reduced to mainland Italy and Sicily and really not much else. 

There were opportunities to (temporarily, if we assume collapse was “inevitable”) reverse the degeneration before things reached that point; it was unlikely to have saved the empire on a permanent basis, but it could have lasted longer with better decisions, better luck, and less infighting.  By the way, my judgment is that the division of the Roman Empire into Western and Eastern halves was the beginning of the end for the West; even though that grand strategy may have been useful as an expedient when initially devised, ultimately it led to a situation in which the richer and more secure Eastern Roman Empire viewed itself as an independent (and superior) entity, bent on its own preservation at the cost of the Fall of the West.  An integrated empire would have been able to draw on its total strength for defense, and could have lasted longer to ensure a more gradual change to the sort of federated European union that could have been possible between the remnants of the Empire and the more “Romanized” of the “barbarians” – eventually integrating the West as a whole, and letting the more alien parts of the East go its own way.

Let’s consider Nietzsche as the coda here, contrasting his views to Der Movement dogma, emphasis added.

That which stood there aere perennis, the imperium Romanum, the most magnificent form of organization under difficult conditions that has ever been achieved, and compared to which everything before it and after it appears as patchwork, bungling, dilletantism those holy anarchists made it a matter of “piety” to destroy “the world,” which is to say, the imperium Romanum, so that in the end not a stone stood upon another and even Germans and other such louts were able to become its masters.  The Christian and the anarchist: both are decadents; both are incapable of any act that is not disintegrating, poisonous, degenerating, blood sucking ; both have an instinct of mortal hatred of everything that stands up, and is great, and has durability, and promises life a future.  Christianity was the vampire of the imperium Romanum, overnight it destroyed the vast achievement of the Romans: the conquest of the soil for a great culture that could await its time.  Can it be that this fact is not yet understood?  The imperium Romanum that we know, and that the history of the Roman provinces teaches us to know better and better, this most admirable of all works of art in the grand manner was merely the beginning, and the structure to follow was not to prove its worth for thousands of years.  To this day, nothing on a like scale sub specie aeterni has been brought into being, or even dreamed of!  This organization was strong enough to withstand bad emperors: the accident of personality has nothing to do with such things the first principle of all genuinely great architecture.  But it was not strong enough to stand up against the corruptest of all forms of corruption against Christians.  These stealthy worms, which under the cover of night, mist and duplicity, crept upon every individual, sucking him dry of all earnest interest in real things, of all instinct for reality this cowardly, effeminate and sugar coated gang gradually alienated all “souls,” step by step, from that colossal edifice, turning against it all the meritorious, manly and noble natures that had found in the cause of Rome their own cause, their own serious purpose, their own pride.

The whole labour of the ancient world gone for naught: I have no word to describe the feelings that such an enormity arouses in me.  And, considering the fact that its labour was merely preparatory, that with adamantine self consciousness it laid only the foundations for a work to go on for thousands of years, the whole meaning of antiquity disappears!  To what end the Greeks?  To what end the Romans?  All the prerequisites to a learned culture, all the methods of science, were already there; man had already perfected the great and incomparable art of reading profitably that first necessity to the tradition of culture, the unity of the sciences; the natural sciences, in alliance with mathematics and mechanics, were on the right road, the sense of fact, the last and more valuable of all the senses, had its schools, and its traditions were already centuries old!  Is all this properly understood?  Every essential to the beginning of the work was ready: and the most essential, it cannot be said too often, are methods, and also the most difficult to develop, and the longest opposed by habit and laziness.  What we have today reconquered, with unspeakable self discipline, for ourselves for certain bad instincts, certain Christian instincts, still lurk in our bodies that is to say, the keen eye for reality, the cautious hand, patience and seriousness in the smallest things, the whole integrity of knowledge all these things were already there, and had been there for two thousand years!  More, there was also a refined and excellent tact and taste!  Not as mere brain drilling!  Not as “German” culture, with its loutish manners!  But as body, as bearing, as instinct in short, as reality.  All gone for naught!  Overnight it became merely a memory!  The Greeks!  The Romans!  Instinctive nobility, taste, methodical inquiry, genius for organization and administration, faith in and the will to secure the future of man, a great yes to everything entering into the imperium Romanum and palpable to all the senses, a grand style that was beyond mere art, but had become reality, truth, life.  All overwhelmed in a night, but not by a convulsion of nature!  Not trampled to death by Teutons and others of heavy hoof!  But brought to shame by crafty, sneaking, invisible, anaemic vampires!  Not conquered, only sucked dry!  Hidden vengefulness, petty envy, became master!  Everything wretched, intrinsically ailing, and invaded by bad feelings, the whole ghetto world of the soul, was at once on top!